Matt and I were looking back over some of the comments you guys left on the post before this one and it got us to thinking some about how young gay guys get comfortable with their new identity as "gay" when they decide to come out. And also how they figure out if "dating" another guy is similar to a guy dating a girl.If you haven't read about our next door neighbor, Jake, you might want to scroll down to get some background. Also, check out the comments people left to see why we started thinking about all this.
We talked to Jake last night and he told us Brady invited him to go riding horses this weekend. Brady's grandfather lives a little ways outside Boston and has some horses that Brady helps take care of and ride.
Jake came over to talk to us about this bit of news and said he told Brady he'd love to. He asked us if this might be considered their "first date." Can you tell Jake is all excited and also a bit nervous?
Jake's never been on a date before, either with a girl or another guy, so this whole thing is completely new to him. Neither Matt nor I have ever dated girls but we feel pretty sure there are some things very much in common. You know, that initial excitement (on the one hand) and nervousness (on the other) when you ask another person out on a date for the first time in your life.
Oh, and also that same excitement and nervousness when you've been asked out for the very first date in your life. I'm pretty sure all of this excitement and nervousness is similar whether you're gay, straight, bi, or trans.
So we told Jake that in our very extensive and wise life experience, he was most definitely asked out on a date by Brady. It was beyond cute and adorable when he sorta relaxed, let out a sigh, got just a small hint of a smile, and simply said in a quiet, shy voice, "Cool."
Well, Jake told us he's never been on a horse before and is all nervous he's going to look like a dork. He said he was doing some research on it and found some vids on YouTube that show you how to get on the horse's back and how to hold the reins and how to "steer" it! Oh man, it was so cute to listen to him talk about it. We held in a grin when he talked about "steering" the horse! Such a city boy!
But we also got to thinking later about what some of you were talking about in the comments in the last post. That whole thing about being there for someone who just came out and is new to this identity. About being a "Big Brother" (or "mentor") to someone and helping them feel more comfortable to ask questions they might have about dating another guy, or other stuff that might be on their mind.
When Matt and I were Jake's age (he's in high school), there were always many opportunities to get a sense of how to connect and relate to girls. You got to actually see it happen all around you every day. And I don't know about girls, but guys love talking about their love interests. Some of it is silly and some of it is a little more serious, so we got a pretty good idea about how straight guys thought about dating, love, sex, friendship, etc., with girls.
In addition to all that, all you have to do is turn on TV and see it being played out there also. Oh, and you were always being asked by different family members (aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc.) if you had a girlfriend. You could tell it was something they really wanted to hear about, so there was lots of encouragement and support for that.
But... where, and how, do young gay guys like Jake learn about dating another guy? It's not something you see happening in school and it's not something you see other teen guys doing on TV. It may sound silly, but if you're a guy, where do you learn how to flirt with another guy? Do you approach a guy differently from how you might approach a girl you're interested in?
If you were the parent or friend of a gay high school teen and he asked you these questions, how would you answer him?
And how do you go about accepting and loving yourself so you don't have to pretend you're something you're not? And how do you deal with people's hatred and disgust of you? Who do you talk to about all this where you won't be judged or made fun of or told you're sick for having these feelings? Where you'll get the support and encouragement you need to feel good about yourself?
I don't think hearing Jake talk about watching a YouTube vid about how to get on a horse or how to steer the animal is anything to laugh at, even though it was more humorous in a cute way. And I don't think doing something like that is different for straight guys or straight girls. That's just about being nervous you might look like a dork in front of the very first person you've ever dated.
So we'll be there for Jake as he gets ready for his very first date, and we'll be there for him after the date. I guess it's really all about finding ways to care about each other. And be there for each other. And support each other.
If Jake was at least 18, we would probably see if he wanted to write a post for us on how to "steer" a horse in case other young gay guys out there get invited to go horse-riding as their very first date ever. I'm sure there would be a lot of important stuff in it, as well as being a lot of fun to read.
Very good post, Bradley. You are all grown up, :)
ReplyDeleteI am glad you are there to support your friend.
Hey Ivie. Thank you!
DeleteJake's lucky to have you two as role models. You're right - there are so few representations of young gay couples/love in the media(although I think it's getting better). That's one of the reasons your blog is so beautiful - you can connect with kids you would probably never meet in real life and help them just by sharing your experiences.
ReplyDeleteFor what it's worth, here's my advice for Jake. Brady isn't going to care if Jake is awkward around the horses (he'll think it's adorable). Brady just wants Jake to see him in his element and share something close to his heart. And if Jake is really bad at "steering" the horses Jake will just have to jump up behind him and show him how it's done - and wouldn't that be awful.
Hi Anne Marie. Yeah, I think you're right about Brady not caring if Jake is not an experienced horseman. We told him Brady is probably going to enjoy showing Jake the ropes, so to speak.
DeleteBrad, that was such an interesting post and something I haven't ever really thought about before. You are totally right, there is so much modeled behavior in terms of how to act with the opposite sex that helps you figure out what to do, how to act. And not much out there for same sex. I mean, you can find an occasional same sex tv couple, or something over the top like QAF, but not much day to day stuff.
ReplyDeleteThat is why I think it is great the he has you and Matty to watch and see a loving relationship first hand. You guys are doing a great job being "advisors"!
Hi JJ! It's sorta fun to be there as an older person (to Jake) to reassure him and encourage him on. He's a sweet guy.
DeleteJake's already gotten past the hard part, thanks to you and Matty. He's managed to meet someone he likes without having to fret over whether Brady was gay or straight -- and how to find out. ;-)
ReplyDeleteThe rest? Dating is dating, regardless of gender or orientation. Be yourself, flaws and all; don't try to be something or somebody you're not. Be honest and forthright; deception, lies, and evasions only come back to bite you. Be polite and considerate. And by all means, show an interest in the person you're with, which means doing as much listening as talking.
Most important, just go with the flow and let yourself have fun! Harboring too many expectations too soon can mess things up -- including and especially your mind.
Oh man, that's all really good advice, K.Z.! Thanks!!
DeleteBradley,
ReplyDeleteThese longer posts are examples of why I think you are such a good writer. So much info; explained so concisely. You are absolutely correct at the lack of good advice around for gay guys to have at their disposal. That is why yours and Matt's blog is heaven-sent. And Jake is even luckier with the authors next door!
The most important thing you can do for Jake (which, really, you already are doing,) is listen to his concerns, answers his questions, and you and Matt continue to be the great role models you are.
Tell Jake I said, 'Have the best time ever!'
Hi Susan! Thanks for your compliment about my writing. Sometimes these longer posts are the hardest to write. I usually end up with about 3 or 4 reallllly long paragraphs that I have to go back and trim down or sub-divide or re-work, but when it comes out like I want it, it's pretty gratifying.
DeleteThanks for your imput about being there to listen to his concerns and answering his questions.
Hi! I've been reading your blog for a while now and it's been really great hearing your story and about your day-to-day life. I think what you guys are doing is great for gay people trying to become more comfortable in their own skin. It has definitely helped me in accepting myself and becoming more comfortable with myself. I think what you guys are doing with jake is great and I wish I had someone like that even now!!! Keep up the good work :)
ReplyDeleteHi! Wow, it's really great you left this comment.
DeleteWe both really appreciate what you said. It's reassuring to us that maybe we're doing some good in keeping the blog, and I'm really glad you're getting to accept yourself and become more comfortable with who you are.
Hope you stop by more often and let us know what you think about the posts and share your ideas.
It's cool getting to know people who follow us! Hey, you keep up the good work, too!! ;)
Loved your post Brad. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd OMG, isn't Jake so cute to do research on youtube about horses? Wow.
Hope he will have a great time with Brady.
*Hugs to you both*
Hi Carnell! Thanks!
DeleteAnd, yeah, it's so much fun seeing him start to overcome some of his shyness as he gets more excited about this weekend.
Hugs to you also!
Brad: There's a surprisingly amount of knowledge one can learn from watching "teaching" YouTube videos, especially if you don't know a lot. On the flip side, if you are somewhat familiar with a topic, say cooking, you can also tell when the videos are crap. Of course most pros know what they are doing as well as gifted amateurs but some people posting are just dolts. Anyway back to your topic.
ReplyDeleteOne common element of initial dating is to try to impress the other person, based on what one thinks the other wants to hear or is expecting. I think one should act on their best behavior the first few dates to set expectations but don't pretend to be something you are not, that's just asking for a big let down eventually. At the same time, one needs to keep an open mind and be able to evolve on issues.
The biggest change about dating is a person's perspective -- when you are single, you always tend to approach things in how does this affect me? But as a couple, you have to look at what is good for the other side, and what's good for the couple and they don't always mesh, so conflict ensues.
Also first time relationships, people tend to put each other on pedestals and think the other can do no wrong -- and that's just a fairy tale. And until you really get to know someone, personality may not mesh over the long haul -- for example if one of the guys is too needy and clingy, that could be a big turnoff for the other.
And finally as with most things, you will make mistakes in dating and need to learn from them. With more experience it will get easier and better.
Hey Jerry. Thanks for your thoughts about dating. I feel like we're getting a lot of really good points that we can pass on!! ;)
DeleteInteresting topic and you make some great points.
ReplyDeleteJake reminds me of myself on a first date once, although since there was no internet back then (aargh, I'm old) I had to go to the library to look stuff up. No one wants to look dumb on that first date. (But trying something new is gutsy, not dumb. You can tell Jake that Brady will probably get a big kick out of knowing more and teaching him stuff, maybe more enjoyment and he'll feel more at ease than if Jake was at his same level. It could actually be a good thing. Lots of contact opportunities in adjusting stirrups and so on ;)
You guys with this blog are doing something to fill that void of information, the question of how two guys get together and talk and flirt and date. But you're right, there isn't anywhere near enough ordinary low-angst examples out there. The books and TV are often all about the drama or unrealistic.
Jake is lucky because he knows Brady is gay and interested - that gets the first hard part out of the way. I'm guessing that the similarities to het dating from here on out probably outweigh the differences. It's about getting comfortable and figuring out how you work together (and the OMG, what if he wants to kiss but OMG what if he doesn't... ad infinitum.) The biggest key I think is to spend time doing things together (and horseback riding is a great choice for keeping them together but busy.) The more time they take to get comfortable together the less careful and studied things will be. You go from "I wonder how to figure out what's the right time to make a move to get closer" to just doing it because it feels right, and if you know the guy you can read his responses so much better. Enjoying and not rushing past the getting to know each other part is probably my best advice. (And no, I didn't forget they are teenagers ;)
If Jake is comfortable with it, tell him all kinds of people are wishing him a fun day and a new friend, however the dating thing works out.
I like what you said about, "Enjoying and not rushing past the getting to know each other part is probably my best advice."
DeleteThanks also for what you said about the blog. I swear it makes both of us feel really happy knowing we're maybe doing some good. ;)
First off Bradley--please--please write a story some day---you have an incredible way with words-You really do!! I sat here and could "see" Jake speaking with you--could "see" your reactions--so please--please consider writing a story one day--won't you?
ReplyDeleteNow--this was an amazing post--so much to think about--so much to consider! I am sure many of these questions were meant to be rhetorical--but you know me--LOL--I can never shut up--maybe you might need to consider banning me?? LOL!
So...
"But... where, and how, do young gay guys like Jake learn about dating another guy? It's not something you see happening in school and it's not something you see other teen guys doing on TV. It may sound silly, but if you're a guy, where do you learn how to flirt with another guy? Do you approach a guy differently from how you might approach a girl you're interested in?"
Well, you actually already answered this sweet boy--he should go to you! I hope that any new and coming out boy will have the chance to seek the advice of someone who respects them, who will care for them--who has an interest in them--another gay man. So you see--you and Matty are so well placed to speak into Jake's life!! He is so lucky to have you!!!
"And how do you go about accepting and loving yourself so you don't have to pretend you're something you're not? And how do you deal with people's hatred and disgust of you? Who do you talk to about all this where you won't be judged or made fun of or told you're sick for having these feelings? Where you'll get the support and encouragement you need to feel good about yourself?"
I'd like to think that there are people like you in this world that can care for boys like Jake. I hope that there are people like your friends here and the two of you who will seek to help--to comfort--to encourage and guide. I hope that blogs like yours open the eyes of all of us to see the need that there is in this world--the need for friends who will accept unconditionally, --the need for mentors who will help answer some of those hard questions.
I am so very proud of the two of you--your care for this boy--your desire to help--the kindness you are showing him--the confidence you are instilling in him by treating him with respect--taking him and his fears seriously. You have no idea how important you are to him--how wonderful he feels when you listen to him!!
Thank you Bradley. Thank you Matty. Thank you for looking out after Jake and for showing him the way!
Thanks, Sammy! ;)
DeleteGreat post Brad! You and Matty are doing some wonderful things with this blog. You really never know who is reading it. I second what all the others have said so no need to repeat. Most important tell Jake to have fun! (And, make sure he has some Chapstick handy.) *wink*
ReplyDelete*hugs to both*
Hey Amanda.
Delete"...make sure he has some Chapstick handy..." LOL! Hadn't thought about that!! ;)
Awesome, B! I'm glad Jake has you and Matty there to help and support him.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Shell!
DeleteYou are awesome. Seriously. Can I adopt you guys? I'm old enough to be your... older sister lol. So much common sense here. There are people in their 30s, 40s, 50s that still struggle socially.
ReplyDeleteIf only they could read this. It applies to everyone.
Hey Mary! Yeah, adopt away!! We'd like that! LOL
DeleteEveryone struggles in social situations, whether that's on the back of a horse or going to a fancy restaurant for dinner the first time. What do you wear? How do you act? What do you do? It's the same for everyone, no matter what your orientation or interest. 'Firsts' are always exciting... and a little scary.
ReplyDeleteIt helps to have friends/family that will support you no matter what. Mentoring is a wonderful and time-honored thing. Good for you, guys! Jake's a lucky young man to have such friends, and in time, he will stand in your shoes for someone younger.
I like that point you made about how in time Jake will be able to be there for someone younger than him. Such a cool thought!
DeleteGreat writing Brad! How wonderful that you two get to support your young friend, keep us posted :D
ReplyDeleteI will. Thanks, Sylvia!
DeleteSo cute! I'm a little jealous to you guys! I would like to know a gay kid in real life who I can help with advice and stuff. It would give me the feeling that all the things I've gone through (in my head, nothing really bad happened) in the process of accepting myself, coming out and finding my place in the world had somewhere a meaning, like to give through some experience. Don't know any gay kid though.
ReplyDeleteBtw you two are still cute too, growing up really fast lol. I guess it's because you're to me what's Jake is to you: a bit younger but so easy to relate. Some big brother (or even father) feelings might come up then ;-)
Hey Kevin! Glad you stopped by. The more big brothers we have, the better! ;)
DeleteWhat I would suggest, if you really want to get Jake's impressions of his first date and flirting and "steering a horse" - have him write it out anyway. Just don't post it. When he turns 18, then he can decide whether or not to post it on this blog or one he creates for himself even. =)
ReplyDelete(Most people my age call it keeping a diary or journal. It's your generation that thinks in online formats. ;) )
I have all of my diaries from when I was... *have to stop and think when I started... March of 7th grade, so...* 12 until 18. I actually STOPPED keeping my diary upon having my first sexual experience (it wasn't sex) because the reason I'd been writing so many of my thoughts down was to share with my daughters (assuming I had any) when they became old enough. I realized during that experience that there were things they were just going to have to learn on their own, and that if reading my diaries up to that point didn't prove that "Mom" had some idea of what they were going through, reading something much more intensely personal wasn't going to help.
So, have him write it down. He can choose to share it later if he wants, or not. But he'll never be able to write it down as clearly as when it is fresh on his mind.
(The same goes for everyone else.) =)
Hey, good idea, Adara... about him writing down what happened and his feelings, etc.!
DeleteI like your post, Brad :) You sound like wonderful and helpful "big brothers".
ReplyDeleteI think this is a wonderfully supportive community for teens: emptyclosets.com
Have you heard of it before?
And on a whole other topic, didn't you like soccer (which we swedes call fotball :P))? Have you heard of Anton Hysen before? He's a swedish prophessional fotball player that came out about a year ago. Here's a link to an interview with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izT7yVwnxrg and this article in english:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/29/anton-hysen-afraid-coming-out
Anyways he has come a long way in a year; got the QX award for homo of the year, and was in the swedish equivalent of dancing with the stars and WON. So yeah just wanted to let you know about him 'cause I think he's an inspiration and might be a start to changing the close mindedness in sports. I hope sports will be more open and accepting of differences in the future.
Hi Madde!
DeleteThanks for leaving those links. I hadn't heard of emptyclosets, but I'll check it out.
And, yeah, I LOVE soccer! Hadn't heard of Anton Hysen before. I'm going to check out those links, too!
Thank you so much!
Jake and his friend's companionship will evolve naturally, as it did for most of us. The advantage he has, is the friendship he has with you and Matt. Your age and his, being not far apart, will make him very relaxed discussing lifes' challenges with you. Kind of like a big brother element.
ReplyDeleteHe's very lucky to know you guys, and I'm sure the feeling will be mutual. Good work, and best wishes
Nice post Brad.
Hi Rolls! Thanks!
DeleteYou guys are awesome, and this post is adorable! That beginning phase of dating where you're wondering if he likes you or if this is a "real" date is exciting. I hope he enjoys it. Of course, there's also all those great phases that come after you realize he really does like you and this could be going somewhere :). Tell Jake good luck!
ReplyDeleteYeah, there's always all this excitement and a little bit of worrying about whether you're doing everything "right" or not. ;)
DeleteSo? How did Jake's date go?
ReplyDelete